Mélanie Ritchot joins us this episode to talk about the Indigenous Editors Circle and how it's influenced her approach to editing. Whether you're an editor, a publisher, or just interested in how the industry is evolving to better support Indigenous voices, this episode is for you.
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Further Reading/Listening
Elements of Indigenous Style by Gregory Younging
Indigenous Writes by Chelsea Vowel
Transcript
Jarin Pintana: Welcome to the BookNet Canada podcast. My name is Jarin Pintana, and I'm a research coordinator at BookNet Canada. Today we're diving into the world of editing, publishing, and Indigenous storytelling with Mélanie Ritchot, a Métis editor, journalist, and publishing professional whose work spans traditional publishing, independent projects, and advocacy.
Mélanie recently participated in the Indigenous Editors Circle, and today we'll talk about what that experience was like and how it's influenced her approach to editing. Whether you're an editor, a publisher, or just interested in how the industry is evolving to better support Indigenous voices, this episode is for you.
Mélanie, thank you so much for being here today. To start off, can you introduce yourself and tell us a bit about your journey into publishing and editing?
Mélanie Ritchot: Yeah, so I'm Mélanie Ritchot, a Red River Métis journalist and editor. I grew up on Treaty 1 Territory, also known as Manitoba, but I'm now based on Vancouver Island. But, yeah, as you mentioned, my background is in journalism and reporting, but a couple years ago, I pursued my Master of Publishing from Simon Fraser University. So, I now work for a book publisher, kind of, in a dual role between marketing and editing with a focus on Indigenous topics books.
So, I'm newer to the book publishing space, but my passion, I would say, has always been about Indigenous-led storytelling and, yeah, figuring out how to properly tell Indigenous stories, whether that's oral stories or otherwise. But I think that's the common thread throughout my work.
Jarin: That's really interesting. And I know you recently participated in the Indigenous Editors Circle. So, for listeners who may not be familiar, what is the Indigenous Editors Circle? And can you tell us just a bit more about that experience?
Mélanie: Yeah, this was my first time attending the Indigenous Editors Circle. It's run by the Indigenous Editors Association, which is also I wouldn't say relatively new, but they've recently revamped their programming. But all their programming is to serve Indigenous editors and to connect non-Indigenous publishing houses or Indigenous publishing houses with Indigenous editors. And they do a lot of educational programming as well, so this was one of those things.
But the Indigenous Editors Circle is a time for Indigenous editors, storytellers, and publishing professionals, kind of, across the industry to gather and discuss issues in publishing, and how we work to preserve Indigenous stories, and how everyone can edit those stories with care. So, there's a lot of brainstorming, a lot of discussion, and it was just a really productive week.
This year, it was in Penticton, and it was really special to be part of that group that was gathering for the first time since 2017. So, they hadn't had a circle for about eight years, from my understanding. And it was a much bigger group this time around, so it was really great to see... I would say there were about maybe 13 or 14 Indigenous editors. And just based on conversations with people who attended the first one, I think there were about five of the first iteration almost a decade ago at this point.
So, it really felt nice to see how many more Indigenous folks were in that space, and working in editing, working in publishing or agenting, things like that compared to a few years ago. I feel like the growth in Indigenous people working in that space kind of mirrors the growth in sales and interest in Indigenous books too.
There was a really great faculty. We had Jessica Johns who's the author of Bad Cree; David Robertson, award-winning author, and he just released 52 Ways to Reconcile; and Stephanie Sinclair, who's the publisher at McClelland & Stewart, was also there. So, a really great panel of Indigenous publishing professionals.
Jarin: That sounds like a great group of people, and what an amazing kind of experience, especially for your first time participating. Can you tell me a bit more? How has participating in the circle influenced or changed your approach to editing, I guess, especially when working with of course Indigenous content or authors? And did you have any key takeaways or I guess standout moments?
Mélanie: Yeah, I think what really stood out to me at first, and I think this was a common experience with a lot of the other Indigenous editors and professionals, was just seeing who else was in that room and who else is working in this space across Canada. Spending time with them was really impactful. I think a lot of us, myself included, are working remotely, we're working from home alone, and I was suddenly in this room with people I had exchanged emails with and worked with remotely before.
But I think there was this sense for the first couple of days because for the first few days it was just the Indigenous participants of the group and then non-Indigenous publishers joined us after. But for those first couple of days especially, there was really a sense in the room, being like, "Oh, look, we're not alone. We're all kind of fighting for the same things in our workplaces, in our work, in our storytelling." And there was really a sense of camaraderie that came up really quickly.
One conversation that I had with Jessica Johns, again the author of Bad Cree, and yeah that book's done so well, it's a bestseller. One thing that she shared that really stayed with me was that anything that Indigenous people are writing can be considered Indigenous literature, and I feel like I'm going to carry that into my editing work. Anything that I'm editing can be taken with this approach. I really found that affirming because I feel like categorising Indigenous literature can be kind of tough. Sometimes it's done by Indigenous topic, and it's like, does having an Indigenous author mean this is Indigenous literature? Does it have to be an Indigenous topic? Does it have to include a certain amount of mention of a nation or a ceremony or have traditional knowledge in it to be included in that category? I know it gets a bit tough when we're talking about BISAC codes and more formal or technical methods of categorising things, but it was just really affirming to hear such a well-known, accomplished author just say it is enough to be an Indigenous person in this space. You don't have to meet a certain requirement of what the audience will consider what's Indigenous enough, and I think that's something that resounded with a lot of people in that group.
Jarin: Yeah. Wow, that makes a lot of sense, but thank you so much for also sharing that with us. Moving into, I guess, some more technical aspects, are there tools or frameworks or resources you've found helpful in your work as an Indigenous editor or when editing Indigenous works?
Mélanie: Yeah, the first one I'll mention, which I think is maybe the most commonly known now, which is great, is Elements of Indigenous Style by Gregory Younging. So, he was the managing editor of Theytus Books, the first Indigenous book publisher in Canada, and he was just a really big advocate in that space. He was one of the founding members of the Indigenous Editors Association. He was at that first circle.
And this book, it's a style guide for writing by and about Indigenous people, and a second edition just came out. So, that is definitely the resource to go to for, I would say, Indigenous and non-Indigenous publishers working in that space. Something that sets this aside from other, more prescriptive style guides is that it leaves a lot of space for creativity and decision-making on a project-by-project basis. I think that was a common thread in the Indigenous Editors Circle too is that every project is so different and that it really depends on the author you're working with, on the community you're working with, and there's not really a way to make these hard and fast rules when publishing or editing Indigenous works. So, this book leaves a lot of room for that.
But the second edition just came out, and they did it in a really interesting way, where the first half of the book or the first section is the first edition, how Greg wrote it himself. And then the second portion of the book, they're calling it "the second conversation," is an expansion on that first work. So, there's a lot of new stuff in there that's really interesting and useful. So, that was definitely a common thread in the week.
And a second one I would say is Indigenous Writes by Chelsea Vowel. I would point people there. And then otherwise, for publishers looking to work with Indigenous editors, I would point them to the Indigenous Editors Association. They have a new database up for finding freelancers who can do proofreading, copy editing, substantive editing, or sensitivity reads as well.
Jarin: Those sound like some absolutely excellent resources. I would really encourage our listeners to check them out. And then I guess just expanding on that, and of course this is just your opinion, but having worked in this space, is there any advice that you would give to publishing organizations who are trying to support the publishing of Indigenous works?
Mélanie: Something that came up quite a bit during the Editors Circle was how crucial it is for an Indigenous editor to be consulted right from the start. We got talking quite a bit about sensitivity reads, and it was interesting to see in the room how many people either thought they were great and how many people thought they were maybe even insulting to be asked to do a sensitivity read. And I think the overarching feeling was that it's so important for publishers to hire Indigenous editors to work on the substantive edit, or just to be working with an editor on that book even if they're not the main editor to be consulted from the very first stages.
A sensitivity read gets done at the end of the publishing process typically. And once it gets to that late stage, it's often too late to make any big changes anyway, so it feels a bit like checking a box. And yeah, it puts that editor in a tough position where they're either having to kind of sign off on most of the book and just make small changes because that's what can be fit into the printing schedule, or they have to make a really tough call and advocate for the publisher to delay the whole schedule if bigger changes need to be made. So, that's not a great position to be in. It doesn't serve the book. It doesn't serve the story. It doesn't serve the publisher, the editor, or the audience well in the end. So, I think that was one of the main things that came out of this week.
Another thing I'd say to keep in mind is compensation. That came up quite a bit during the week, that Indigenous editors are really feeling like they weren't always properly compensated for the amount of work that goes into publishing an Indigenous book. And that's not to say that a ton of work isn't being put in by all authors, but I think publishers should be taking into account whether they're asking an Indigenous editor to share traditional knowledge throughout the process, whether they're going to be speaking with community members and Elders, and consulting with their community, and what that process is going to be like. It's really time-consuming and emotionally tolling. There's also the element of having Indigenous editors work on stories involving Indigenous trauma. That part's really tough too. So, you just really want to make sure you're properly compensating for all these different facets of that work.
And then also being really supportive of the editors throughout that process too. You really don't want to just leave an editor with a tough manuscript on their own and thinking that that's enough. I think it's really important for editors to edit works with care, but I also think it's really important for publishers to show care throughout the process for those editors working on a tough subject matter.
Jarin: Those are great points. Thank you so much. I think it's an important reminder about how deeply we have to be thinking about these topics of inclusion from the start and compensation. And even what you said about sensitivity reads, it's not like a black or white situation. You really need to be thinking about these things on a case-by-case basis and what you're actually asking of people and what makes sense. So, thank you for bringing those to light. And for all of your insights today, I think it's given our listeners a lot to think about. There are a lot of big topics in there. So, I guess just to end off with, where can people find your work or follow along with what you're doing?
Mélanie: Yeah, thank you. This is a really great conversation. I do have a website. It's just my name, so melanieritchot.com. And otherwise, I have a profile on the Indigenous Editors Association website. I'd say that's a great place for all publishers to look to work with Indigenous editors. And that's where to find me.
Jarin: That is wonderful. That brings us to the end for today, but thank you, Mélanie, for joining us. Before I go, I'd like to take a moment to acknowledge that BookNet Canada’s operations are remote and our colleagues contribute their work from the traditional territories of the Mississaugas of the Credit, the Anishinaabe, the Haudenosaunee, the Wyandot, the Mi’kmaq, the Ojibwa of Fort William First Nation, the Three Fires Confederacy of First Nations (which includes the Ojibwa, the Odawa, and the Potawatomie), and the Métis, the original nations and peoples of the lands we now call Beeton, Brampton, Guelph, Halifax, Thunder Bay, Toronto, Vaughan, and Windsor. We encourage you to visit the native-land.ca website to learn more about the peoples whose land you are listening from today.
Moreover, BookNet endorses the Calls to Action from the Truth and Reconciliation Commission of Canada and supports an ongoing shift from gatekeeping to spacemaking in the book industry. We'd also like to acknowledge the Government of Canada for their financial support through the Canada Book Fund, and of course, thanks to you for listening.
Mélanie Ritchot joins us this episode to talk about the Indigenous Editors Circle and how it's influenced her approach to editing.